PLP

[russau]

theres been a lot of complaining/accusations about PLP here. id just like to know exactly what PLP has done wrong in defending our rights? please give facts and not just your opinion. what exactly did PLP do that kept us from dredgeing in California? we all have complaints in some form or another, but if you cant back it up with the true facts, your just running your mouth to hear yourself talk! hearsay is changed by almost everyone that repeats it.so let it off your chest or stop all this petty cheapshots!

[russau]

i also posted this and more over on http://www.49ermike.com in the PLP forum.

[ROKONRANDY1]

there is no dredging in CA, that has not changed Randy

[russau]

russau you are the only one who has pimped for him. ***(pimped for him?? whats that mean??what are you implying??)))Does Jerry still have his day job? **** ( yes i beleive he does own a mining supply store! )Russ. Bruce Beaty, legal documents. ****( i dont understand your question here!)Washinton Bar see if there is a legal right to produce the legal documents. *****(i beleive ANY document is availiable therough the freedon of information act. i know Bruce has used this in the past to aquire info!)Mickel Thornberry UK ask him how much it cost him to find out about charater.**********(charactor is what you do when nowbody is wayching you!as far as i know about M.Thornberry, he has good charactor.it dont cost anything to figure that out!) Russ who put them self in charge and had his hand out further than any one else, your buddy.********(PLP has been out there for many years fighting for our rights! it costs lots of money to use the lawyers in these fights! you cant go to court without them and expect to win!) (PLP has been there fighting for us when most werent!John "Hoser"Oates has fought hard for these rights also with the Western Allaince group! who did nothing when the dredge ban happend.*******(oh really!did nothing you say!you need to goto www.PLP2.org and read about what PLP has done for us with MOST of the small scale mining community sat on the hind ends and did nothing to help!) Did you see any press or effort to organize any thing more than a internet presence.*********PLP fought this in the courts, thats where the fight was! How many years of political experience did Jerry have?************(it dont matter how many years or lack of years he had! he can read and understand what the law says and he can research these laws to see if they gell or conflict with the laws that are on the books. and thats why he has a lawyer to fight this in the courts!) how many years of political experience do you have? i dont have any, but i still can fight for OUR rights,im assuming that you do also!) How many times has he been in jail.************whats that got to do with anything??? who cares!!! if someone wants to help me, im not going to ask them how many times you been to jail! its none of our business anyway!) who pulled the plug on AB 1032 even if it did not pass.*********(i dont know, who did pull the plug on AB120???) Russ you are a responsible party in the dredge ban along with about 60 thousand plus other people.*********(i sure wish that 60,000 plus would have stoodup tobe counted when the sh*t hit the fan back then!) AB 1032 the wed. night before the plug was pulled in the Colorado Prospectors Chat you will see the plan and why there was no press or sharing of the reponsibility or the resorces and why every thing was done so no one knew what was happening.*********( sorry,i dont do chat on the net. i do freqwuent the Colorado prospectors web site often, and know Mr. & Mrs. CP and think a lot of them!)How much money was paid to him? You ask, answer up. I have been at this most of my life and have seen the money con come and go.*********** what indication of a money con are you referring to?Jerry and ALL board people DO NOT receive any $$$$$ for their services/time)Sad part about it is that there was plenty of prof that something was not right, even now things are not right.*********(prof of a con??? show it!) To many low quality people,*********(judge not lest you will be judges!) Russ you ask. I hope I do not piss any one off with this, there is no dredging in CA, that has not changed Randy

**********( if a person can prove what he says, then its not slanderious! therefore it shouldnt pzz anyone of, after all we here to show prof arent we and not just run our mouths cause we are pzzed! ive spent a lot of time helping in this fight for our rights in several states, east, west, south and the midwest. and it just floors me(really pzzes me off big time) to spend this time effort and yes money to fight for this to only have these wacoenviromentalists,political partys lie about something and keep at it only to have these slanted judges go along with their lies even when we prove they lied! and now when weve fought this fight and didnt do like everyone was hopeing we would do, to start their complaining. i say,"where were you when we were in this fight for our rights?(not refering to Rokonrandy) . where were you when Steve (ElDorado) went to stand in front of Sacrementos Capital building for his protest? no many people showed up to support his statements!) yes i understand being pzzed about the way things are turning out, ive helped in several states, even in Indiana(even though it was a miniscual amount of help! Chuck Lassiter and Mike Phelps lead that charge and did very well! SALUTE!i also can understand people getting mad if theey dont know all the true facts. going off half cocked is one good way to get the facts wrong! and thats what this entire post is about! the truth will set you free!

[russau]

sorry, im not any good at cut and paste. this is my version!

[Reno badboy]

OK guys here's my take on this subject. NO ONE DID ANYTHING! I saw alot of money going to PLP at the gold shows and they did nothing! Our club donated an amount, plus we bought a dry-washer that was donated to them to help fight this mess,still nothing. One or two guys can't get anyones attention. People say that we gotta wait to see what happens,then its to late to do anything,plus it'll cost even more!!! People are just stupid!!!!!!!!Common sence is dead!!!! My personal opinion is this outfit is no better than McCrackhead,GPAA/LDMA,ECT! Miners mining miners!!! I for one am done putting my money in some else's pocket! What should of been done wasen't,to late now! No slam on any one person or group.

[russau]

no one did anything?? what about all the legal research PLP has done in addition to what the lawyer did in court. nothing done?who else did anything to stop the tide of wacos!!!!?????? i cant see this as being a accurate statement! GPAA/LDMA are very big contributors to PLP as well as Keene eng. ICMJ and others.. this situation can only be fought in court once the wacoenviromentalists taste the sweetness of the green lawyers false stories of wealth for the tribes. all they need is a casino for their forunes ,and the karcks ran with it with all the lies that these green lawyers plant in their heads! money=greed! the enviromentalists have literally tons of cash to throw at these socalled "representatives" that "we the people"voted into office. these socalled "representaives" see all this cash going to their special needs or funding their projects (pockets) and then look at us poor folks wanting our rights! who do you thinks going to get the attention of these socalled "representatives"? SURELY NOT THEM DIRTY MINERS THAT FOUL MOTHER EARTH do you! just because we have the law backing our mining dont mean we will keep it! most of these socalled "representaives" are planning on redoing the 1872 mining laws and NOT in our favor! so i ask again, whos going to defend/fight for our rights????????????? everyone that does step up gets slammed! Jim Foley tried a few years back with the "National Land Rights" group and people started pzzing about it also! people claimed that Jim and the board were rakeing/stuffing money into their pockets and not using the cash to fight for our rights. that was the furthest from the truth as a person can get without falling over! there was another one i think in California(Walt) (Equal Justice) and it faded away also. so whos going to be the next person/group to step up if PLP isnt there? nobody!

[russau]

[quote="Reno badboy"]OK guys here's my take on this subject. NO ONE DID ANYTHING! I saw alot of money going to PLP at the gold shows and they did nothing! Our club donated an amount, plus we bought a dry-washer that was donated to them to help fight this mess,still nothing. ************thankyou for your support! our Missouri clubs have also donated for the fight!and not just to PLP. EOMA, and others also! yep lots of money was donated from all over. lawyers cost big bucks! i dont think you would want a legal aid lawyer to fight a mining/enviroment issue, unless you dont care if youll win or not! yep i dont like the results either but attacking the people that are standing up to fight for your rights isnt very smart

[jerhobbs]

OK, Now I know who rockonrandy is, it is Sean Craven. About 4 or years ago I got a call from him out of the blue. He had a situation with Micheal Thornberry from England. He wanted my support and the support of PLP to vouch for his integrity on a business deal that Sean and Micheal had put together for Micheal to by a Keene dredge. Sean said that Micheal was accusing him of going south with a money order or bank draft ( if I remember correctly the check was for $1,000), Micheal had sent him to help purchase a dredge from keene at a discount because Sean new Pat Keene personally and could get it cheaper.
Sean said he never received the check and Micheal said he did. Sean wanted me and PLP to vouch for him. I told Sean by phone calls several times that this was a matter between him and Micheal and PLP would not get involved, it was none of our business. Sean called and called and I kept telling we could not vouch for him. The last time I talked to him he called late at night, about 10 or 11 pm. My sister had died on that day and I wasn't in very good frame of mind. Sean asked again to vouch for him and he became demanding, said it was PLP's job to protect him. Again I told him no, but he was insistant, I finally told him to go F--k himself and I hung up. That is the last time I talked to him.
Michael came in from England shortly there after, he come to see me before he went to Keene to buy a dredge from them. Micheal was still insistant that Sean had went south with the money order or check, but said he couldn't prove it, so he just ate the loss. I haven't seen Micheal post on the websites recently but if any of you know how to get in touch with him, he will tell you the same story.
Pat Keene was also aware of what was going on with Micheal and Sean and said the Sean had approached him to get a dredge from at wholesale and Pat told him no because he was not a dealer. He called me when Micheal arrived and said that Micheal had bought a dredge and was on his way out of town to dredge with Terry Stapp for the summer. Which he did because I had put Micheal in touch with Terry prior to him leaving England. Pat knows this story also.
I didn't know who Rockonrandy was but had inquired in the past from Leanard and Mike Higbee, asking if they knew who he was and they said they didn't. Now that Rockonrandy brings up Micheal Thornberry and I know who Rockonrandy is, I am responding to his slanderous remarks on this post and any of his prior or future posts.
I suggest that if you are interested in the Rockonrandy's character that you do as he asks, contact Micheal Thornberry and he can tell you the facts. Pat Keene has also told me that if you want to talk to him about this story, to just call him at 1-800-392-4653.

[russau]

thanks for the info Jerry! and thanks for stepping in! my finger tips are bout wornout!