Arkansas River Colorado Sluicing - 15 May 13

[golden optimist]

We actually have nothing but good to say about the BLM in Canon City and the Denver office. They are extremely helpful and easy to work with. The Arkansas Headwaters has some restrictions but in working with them, they seen to be watching out for ALL of the users. I don't know about Cache Creek as we really don't go there. I've heard that it was very heavily used though.
Leonard

[dickb]

Hi:

This post was not about Rights, Only about regulations put in place by the BLM on the Ark Headwaters. I was talking about the GPAA claims by the railroad bridge.

I believe you have read more into what was said than was stated. Here are the rules as I understand them.

Arkansas River - The Arkansas River and its drainage has a limited open season between April 1st to October 1st for most motorized equipment. All motorized equipment that pumps water from the Arkansas must have a BLM bond to work the Arkansas and its tributaries. This bond is $25.00, good for two years, and is non refundable. Dredging is allowed without further permitting up to 4 inch nozzle. Highbankers must discharge into a holding pond before water is returned to the river. Dredging is confined to the high water mark of the river bottom. (That means the sand or gravel bars that are covered at high water and dry in summer, NOT where water touches on the BANK) Dry washing, panning and sluicing can be done year round. Your bond can be obtained from the BLM at the Arkansas Headwaters building in Salida, Colorado. 2012: NO DREDGING OR HIGHBANKING IS ALLOWED AT CACHE CREEk. Check the Arkansas River Drainage page under Cache Creek for a link to the forms. Highbanking and dredging along the Arkansas must have a bonding permit for EACH area you plan to use.

The BLM and other agencies are mandated to manage for multiple use and It seems to me that rockhounds and prospectors are being targeted with over regulation to limit their participation enjoying their prefered activities.

I understand that the guides and rafters have a lot of clout in the use of the river. I also understand that the times that they allow dredging are high flow periods on the river. This makes dredging less safe and puts rafters in danger as well. The rafts have difficulty maneuvering around anchored dredges.

The point that I was attempting to make was that the period after Labor day till ice up is a better time for dredger's, highbanker's, sluicer's and panner's to work the river. They have more access to the river bed, flows are slower, and rafters for the most part are fewer.

I see a trend to curtail activities of horsemen, atv'ers. hunters, 4x4 wheelers, prospectors and others that want to enjoy these public lands. I feel this is discrimination targeted at specific groups of the Public ( we the people ) and I was trying to point that fact out.

I realize that we have very little clout with government, but that doesn't give these agencies the right to target these under represented groups.

I also have some opinions about CC as well, but I was not refering to them at this time.

This is just my OPINION and it's the way I feel. Anyone else is entitled to their own opinion.

I was not trying to provoke a fight and I want to be very clear about that.

Dickb

[golden optimist]

Hi:

This post was not about Rights, Only about regulations put in place by the BLM on the Ark Headwaters. I was talking about the GPAA claims by the railroad bridge.

Arkansas River - The Arkansas River and its drainage has a limited open season between April 1st to October 1st for most motorized equipment. All motorized equipment that pumps water from the Arkansas must have a BLM bond to work the Arkansas and its tributaries. This bond is $25.00, good for two years, and is non refundable. Dredging is allowed without further permitting up to 4 inch nozzle.

Thats the old rules which were changed about 2 years ago. Motorized equipment now requires that the claim ownwers submit a plan which specifies the equipment to be used and the proposed operation. Then a claim bond will be determined and after posting it, you can begin operation. The bond is good for 2 years and we don't know if it will require a new one be filed or if it rolls over. This sounds a lot harder than it actually is. Last year there were 4 claim owners that had followed the process and were able to dredge.

The CCC being one of the 4.

The GPAA was not one of them as under the club operation, it would be difficult to assign responsibility and to control numbers and equipment. We didn't have that problem as our operation is well defined.The bond we posted was reasonable and wasn't a big deal


Highbankers must discharge into a holding pond before water is returned to the river. Dredging is confined to the high water mark of the river bottom. (That means the sand or gravel bars that are covered at high water and dry in summer, NOT where water touches on the BANK) Dry washing, panning and sluicing can be done year round.

Your bond can be obtained from the BLM at the Arkansas Headwaters building in Salida, Colorado.

That is no longer valid. The permit and bond must be processed by the claim owners.


2012: NO DREDGING OR HIGHBANKING IS ALLOWED AT CACHE CREEk. Check the Arkansas River Drainage page under Cache Creek for a link to the forms. Highbanking and dredging along the Arkansas must have a bonding permit for EACH area you plan to use.

The BLM and other agencies are mandated to manage for multiple use and It seems to me that rockhounds and prospectors are being targeted with over regulation to limit their participation enjoying their prefered activities.

I understand that the guides and rafters have a lot of clout in the use of the river. I also understand that the times that they allow dredging are high flow periods on the river. This makes dredging less safe and puts rafters in danger as well. The rafts have difficulty maneuvering around anchored dredges.

The point that I was attempting to make was that the period after Labor day till ice up is a better time for dredger's, highbanker's, sluicer's and panner's to work the river. They have more access to the river bed, flows are slower, and rafters for the most part are fewer.

I see a trend to curtail activities of horsemen, atv'ers. hunters, 4x4 wheelers, prospectors and others that want to enjoy these public lands. I feel this is discrimination targeted at specific groups of the Public ( we the people ) and I was trying to point that fact out.

I realize that we have very little clout with government, but that doesn't give these agencies the right to target these under represented groups.

I also have some opinions about CC as well, but I was not refering to them at this time.

This is just my OPINION and it's the way I feel. Anyone else is entitled to their own opinion.

I was not trying to provoke a fight and I want to be very clear about that.

Dickb

[dickb]

Hi GO:

I was aware that the rules have been toughened and that only a few were willing to jump through the new regulations.

What I copied was what I had on file here a my home.

So we now know that of all the dredgers interested in coming to CO and the local residents, there are only 4 groups that are allowed to dredge or high bank on the Ark. I guess that pretty clearly shows that the regulations were put in place to stop dredging and have been effective in curtaining that activity.

I also see that it would be a nightmare for the GPAA to try and make it possible to dredge on the Ark claims. They would be held accountable if some un-known person were to come in and trash the claims.

Again were stopping all to prevent a few from violating the regulations. Anybody see that happening anyplace else?

Dickb

[russau]

yep! in several states!

[C-17A]

Swizz, Leonard, et al.,

My take was Dickb was probably referring to the BLM restrictions on powered ops (suction dredging/highbanking, etc.) due to the trout spawning season on the Ark/Ark feeder stream watershed.

Isn't it true the BLM will only let those with a current claim, that have filed their NOI, POO, posted a bond and paid/got their permit for motorized/powered ops run those ops from 1 Apr to 30 Sep each year?

I agree with Dickb some of the lowest, slowest water on the Ark is very late in the Fall & early Winter, BUT the BLM won't let you do anything on BLM managed land other that pan or sluice...right? Would be GREAT to try suction dredging when the river is that low, slow.

Randy "C-17A"

[C-17A]

Guys,

O.K. Ha. I didn't notice there was actually a second page of additional commentary & clarification & discussion...

Sorry... Think my few comments were actually in line with the discussion.

HOWEVER, looks like "you all" got it all out there for all of you to be more "edumacated"!

Thanks!

Randy "C-17A"