Time for Propane Safety

[Hoser John]

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Two men were found dead in a camper of an apparent propane-related poisoning, according to the Siskiyou County Sheriff's Office.

The two men, identified as Michael Minto, 53, and Kelly Sardeson, 48, both of Etna, were discovered Friday around 2 p.m. when a Sheriff's deputy responded to a call of a camper parked on private property without permission.

The deputy noticed a strong odor of propane-type gas coming from the camper, parked at French Creek Road near Miners Creek Road. The deputy also heard a dog barking inside the camper.

Minto and Sardeson appeared to have been dead for one or more days when they were discovered in the camper.

A propane-driven device was found inside and investigators noted little little to no ventilation during an examination of the camper.

An investigation shows no sign of criminal activity, but until a forensic autopsy and toxicology tests are performed the cause of death is pending.

[Ornery Cuss]

Two things amoungst others about propane that's a deadly mix.

1. Propane is heavier than air, sinking to the lowest point, displacing oxygen = dead.

2. The byproduct of combustion, the dreaded CO = dead.

Surprized the dog survived.

Stay alive, don't f**k with propane.


OC

[russau]

R.I.P. guys!

[Hoser John]

Actually this reminds me of the family I found at Union Flats on the Yuba in the adjacent camping spot.. Ma,Pa and 2 kids and the fool decides to burn off mercury at night in the camper so he could see his gold before he slept....they slept all right...forever-Ya'all be careful out there as tree fires indoors here are in season and blazing too-John

[russau]

On another website that I wont mention , a gal (very newbee) talked about burning off mercury in her home kitchen with her youg baby with her in the home. and when I commented about poisoning/ contaminating her home and family she went on the defensive with me! OH WELL! some people will never learn!

[Ornery Cuss]

The Darwin theory comes to mind.

[Bonaro]

Two things amoungst others about propane that's a deadly mix.

1. Propane is heavier than air, sinking to the lowest point, displacing oxygen = dead.

2. The byproduct of combustion, the dreaded CO = dead.

Surprized the dog survived.

Stay alive, don't f**k with propane.


OC

Propane is a great fuel but you have to treat it properly just like you do with any other fuel.
If your appliance or engine is properly adjusted and you have complete combustion, the byproducts are CO2 and water, the exhaust is non-toxic.
If you have a sooty flame or running rich you will have CO in the exhaust and that is toxic.
The story said there was a smell of gas which tells me there was no flame and probably was a unlit burner. Unburned propane stinks but it's not toxic. However it will displace the oxygen in a confined space and asphyxiation is likely what killed the campers.

[Hoser John]

That's the problem with society now a days as doing things PROPERLY is a drag as they are entitled to do what they want, when they want and how they want and the consequences are someones elses' problem.....not..2 more houses blown to bits and burned from honey oil labs this week here in Shasta County proven with 2 more horrendous fires being investigated. John

[Plumas]

"Propane is a great fuel but you have to treat it properly just like you do with any other fuel.
If your appliance or engine is properly adjusted and you have complete combustion, the byproducts are CO2 and water, the exhaust is non-toxic.
If you have a sooty flame or running rich you will have CO in the exhaust and that is toxic.
The story said there was a smell of gas which tells me there was no flame and probably was a unlit burner. Unburned propane stinks but it's not toxic. However it will displace the oxygen in a confined space and asphyxiation is likely what killed the campers."



An unlit burner? Not necessarily.. Let me share.

During my Paramedic career I'd respond to a call like this about every 5 years. On a some occasions found dead people other times, people unconscious but alive inside small camp trailers or pickup campers where they had lit the stove burner(s) to stay warm. The CO. nailed em, the smell of propane (if present) was usually due to the tank having emptied itself enough to cause the burner go out but the empty tank continues to emit that distinctive propane stink. This was more often the case than you might imagine.

The human body has an affinity for Carbon Monoxide and absorbs it roughly 400 times easier than it does Oxygen and it binds tightly to the hemoglobin in your blood cells which together, are supposed to transport Oxygen 'round and round. So therefore, any amount of CO in the atmosphere is taking a steady number of blood cells out of the picture in terms of human respiration. Guaranteed. To make it even more insidious, CO is odorless, colorless and tasteless and once it's in ya it's really hard to get rid of.

For us ambulance people, first line treatment was to pour on the high flow Oxygen while we awaited a helicopter to transport them to the nearest hyperbaric chamber for further emergency care. Oddly enough our SpO2. meters would always read 100% oxygen saturation in their bloodstream. (meters can't tell the difference between CO. and O2.) That along with their bright red skin and by taking in the big picture of what was going on made for an easy diagnosis.

"If your appliance or engine is properly adjusted and you have complete combustion, the byproducts are CO2 and water, the exhaust is non-toxic."

I might buy into that theory if there was such a thing as a perfectly adjusted 100% efficient burner out there in the real world. But I'll shoot holes all day long in the theory it's possible to adjust a internal combustion engine so that it doesn't produce measurable CO. Catalytic converters in cars will remove most of the CO but most doesn't equal all and even new car exhaust still works quite well for those who desire to commit suicide by parking a running car inside a garage or hooking a hose to the tailpipe.

For the motors us miners tend to use all bets are off. Even Honda's ain't perfect and many a dredger has found his tit in a wringer when the air compressor intake proved to be a mite too close to the engines exhaust.

If yer hell-bent determined to stupidly do yourself in.. Crawl into a camper to sleep with a Hibachi or one of those cheap three legged Chicom BBQ's. filled with lit charcoal briquettes to stay warm. That one seems to work everytime.

Merry Christmas to all and be safe.

Plumas

[russau]

OR like I do , Bring extra blankets..............forget about the generator or gas heat!! Ive noticed that at my home , our electric blanket is 120vac that is rectified to 18vdc...maybe a solar charger to your battery to the electric blanket instead????? just cut off the 120vac rectifier!! BUT again , blankets work for me!