Hydrolic mining?

[Bluebeard]

To my knowledge, Vortxrex is not manufacturing those. I looked into it last year and although he was very helpful in talking to me about how they work and offering ideas on how to make one like it, I don't remember if he was set up to make them. I believe that was his prototype device. I had a similar dry land situation, and purchased a Hydroforce 300 nozzle from Midwest Prospectors. I did a review of it on another list, but the long and short of it was I was very impressed with the performance of the Hydroforce (so impressed that I bought 2 other sized nozzles). The whole dredging rules thing in California - via the intent (and wording) of the law appears to prevent (in an active waterway):

1. Destroying of aquatic habitat for fishes

2. Eliminating the spread of mercury

Using a hydraulic elevator (or hydroforce nozzle) doesn't affect the fish habitat, since it is being conducted outside of the waterway (yet in the dry parts of the streambed) and by the nature of the usage of the nozzle as per the Vortrex video pretty much excludes the collection of mercury. If you carefully read the california regs, they specifically address "instream dredging in active waterways". FWIW.

[Geo-George]

If you carefully read the california regs, they specifically address "instream dredging in active waterways". FWIW.

True, BUT......
you must be at least 300 ft from an active waterway to use a "Suction Devise".
Geo-

[Bluebeard]

Wiki Definition- "suction dredge"- These are small machines that float on the water and are usually operated by one or two people. A suction dredge consists of a sluice box supported by pontoons, attached to a suction hose which is controlled by the miner working beneath the water.

I don't currently use a "suction dredge", I have a suction nozzle coupled to a power sluice working outside of an active waterway.


From SB670-

"Existing law prohibits the use of any vacuum or suction dredge
equipment by any person IN ANY RIVER, stream, or lake of this state" ( I am not working IN any river)

"Under existing law, it is unlawful to possess a vacuum or suction dredge in
areas, or in or within 100 yards of waters, that are closed to the
use of vacuum or suction dredges" (I don't use a dredge- I use a suction nozzle attached to a powersluice)

"The bill would prohibit the use of any vacuum or suction dredge equipment IN ANY RIVER, stream, or lake , for
INSTREAM mining purposes, until the director...." (need I say it again- I am not IN any river)

Again, the intent of the law is to prevent fishery habitat damage and Mercury contamination in an active stream.
(I may be mistaken here, but) I think working on the side of a creek (outside of the active water channel) with a suction nozzle
coupled to a powersluice (not a dredge) isn't covered by this law. Now I'm not so sure I would flaunt my interpretation in a location
right next to a highway, but in my secluded location, I think I will consider my actions well within the law as stipulated until otherwise
challenged.

[Hoser John]

A FOOL AND HIS MONEY ARE SOOOOOOOOOOOOON PARTED

[Geo-George]

From Wikipedia:
Dredging is an excavation activity or operation usually carried out at least partly underwater, in shallow seas or fresh water areas with the purpose of gathering up bottom sediments and disposing of them at a different location.

So, if one is using "suction" to "dredge" they would be in violation of SB 670.
"Dredging" is an activity who's name has been adopted to name a devise, "suction dredge", which would more appropriatly be named a "Suction Dredging Devise"
"Dredge" is a verb that has been converted to a noun for descibing a devise that "dredges".
If one uses a "suction" devise, of any type, they are "suction dredging". If one's activities are within 300 ft of an active stream, etc., one is in violation of SB 670.

Now, my activity of hydrolic mining would also be concidered a type of "dredging", but there is no "suction" involved which puts my activiy outside of the regulations of SB 670 which specificly bans "Suction Dredging".

Per the above deffinition, using a shovel to move material is a type of "dredging" activity.
The key word in the SB 670 definition for violation is the use of "Suction".
Geo-

[Geo-George]

BTW, possession of a "suction nozzle" on a prospecting site, or in your vehicle at the site, can show "intent" to use and one can be prosecuted as if it were in actual use. "Possession with intent".

Sorry, but that is how an officer, prosecuting att., and judge may very well interprit the situation.
People have had their equipment AND vehicles confiscated for SB 670 violations.
I'd be very careful as to how and when I use a suction nozzle and be dang sure I'm not in violation.

I call my operation "Pressure Dredging".
( And I can't find any info describing it as illegal. If I'm wrong, I'd sure like to know about it. )
Geo-

[Bluebeard]

Two things:

John, I'd love to hear your rationale for doing what you do (if you are deluded as I am to assume you need a rationale)

The beauty of using a power sluice is that in most cases, a suction nozzle offers little value. In my situation I have had my claim for over 3 years and have NEVER seen anyone anywhere even close to the claim. It is in a part of the Gold Country that is barely even recognized as gold country, and it is fair to assume that no one has any reason to be out this far in the woods for any reason.

Also, I have kept my ears open and I haven't heard of anyone ever being busted for even (doing the REALLY DIRTY DEED) suction dredging this whole season. My guess is there really isn't much pressure to arrest miners. I know for a fact that a lot of miners have just packed up and pulled out, but I also know of miners who are taking their chances- and have yet to hear of any arrests. Can anyone confirm or deny?

[russau]

not to throw water on your post,but to admit or confirm anything could/would possibly bring the greenies/gubermint down on someone wanting to remain unseen/caught!

[Bluebeard]

Thanks for the reminder Russau. I was trying to be careful in my wording as I don't mean to imply anything that may or may not be true. There are lots of other ways to skin this cat (although not as efficient)- and in all honesty- I am one of those nut-cases who just likes to go out into the wilderness to get away and work my ass off- whether or not if I find much gold. If it entails shoveling gravel into a power sluice hopper, or cleaning up the trail to my claim, so be it. I just enjoy the adventure (and the sore muscles afterwards). I'm kinda funny that way. My wife doesn't understand my enjoyment.

[drjon]

Hydrolic mining is disastrous for our environment and Calif has done a great job by ban this process.