CDFG Sac Meeting 2/11 Illegal

[Hoser John]

The stringent demands of a legal CEQA mandated EIR has again been violated by closed door meetings,no public input,no public notification,and thats the good part. As a permit owner don't you think that your so called rights groups would have at least tried to get your input or at the extreme least NOTIFY YOU OF THE MEET?? When pickn' your pocket and blowing each others horns on the internet it's great but keep you infomed is tooooooooo much to ask--just your $$$$$please.. Your future is at stake and the Office Of Adminstrative Law has killed many EIRs before and also the latest greatest attempt by the same folks too!!!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$ over and over we go totally unrepresented like a droid in a void . Just like the 2 party system FAILED. For over 40 years you were informed and we pervailed 99+%--now you demand 100% and get 000000000.I am damned to keep anything from anyone who I know would want his thoughts on his future properly addressed in a public forum--MINERS AIN'T MUSHROOMS OR BUREAURATZ ,the light of day is a specific requirement for honesty. Respect to ya fellow dredgers-John Oates

[CalGoldDredger]

Right on John !!!! No Respect.

I took notice to that also, after scratchin' my head trying to figure out what was happening at this meeting.
Why, Who, What only the few chosen can attend, what if I don't want those to defend me.
What is wrong with this picture!!!!

No Choice, No Rights, Freedom Removed.

John

[goldfinds]

How did you here about this meeting? I would like to know more about it.

[Hoser John]

Must protect friends pension,info since the Cantara spill in 91 has never been wrong. Thats how we knew(statute a limitations now expired) when to climb fence and retrieve records from trashbin(no shreaders then) to supply Senator with documents damning the CDFG/Shasta county health and SP over lies and misdirection on spill. Here is yet another fun fact. The so called questionaires that we were "supposed" to provide the info to prepare the Draft EIR have not even been returned yet ,but the draft is supposidly done and ready to go to print?? Lets see so no new facts or statistists, just the same old lies utilized using archaic info. Just another dog and pony show on the way to having the OAL kill this illegally conducted EIR to be NOT CERTIFIED as legal.YAAAAAAAAAAAAA more years a tears and no $ to complete. Listen up you all. Oregon,Washington and Idaho already on the bandwagon to kill dredging too. Learn and listen up and YOU are definately next--as california( 8th largest economy on the face of the earth) goes so does the nation- John

[Ron_L]

Ron in WA knows this all to well...
it's just a matter of when - not if!!!

Good Post Hoser

[old gold miner]

Long story short, I was not on the PAC/DFG "invited" list.
But, thanks to Jerry Hobbs, I got through the door, was present throughout & able to comment.
Been up since 4AM this morning, drove 150 miles over Donner Pass there, did the meeting & 150 miles home.
Just got home & a bit frazzled around the edges.

ASAP, will post info about the dog/pony show goings on.

[old gold miner]

WHO WAS THERE.................

Alison Harvey
Friends of the North Fork and California
Tribal Business Alliance
http://www.caltba.org/

Marc Springer
Bureau of Land Management, California
State Office

Curtis Knight
Caltrout

John Buckley
Central Sierra Environmental Resource Center

Ray Nutting
El Dorado County

Jeff Shellito
Friends of the North Fork

Steve Evans
Friends of the River

Craig Tucker
Karuk Tribe
http://www.karuk.us

Pat Keene
Keene Engineering

Walt Duffy Leader,
California Cooperative Research Unit,
US Geological Survey,Cooperative Research Units

Gerald "Jerry" Hobbs
Public Lands for the People
http://www.plp2.org/

Christine Nota
US Forest Service

George Wheeldon
Registered Geologist
http://www.gwheeldon.org

Joseph Greene
Retired research scientist

Claudia Wise
retired U.S. EPA Physical Scientist

Peter “Petey” Brucker
Salmon River Restoration Council

Elizabeth “Izzy” Martin
Sierra Fund
http://www.sierrafund.org/

Carrie Monohan
Sierra Fund
http://www.sierrafund.org

Ric Costales
Siskiyou County

Ken Oliver
Siskiyou County

Chip Hess
The Miners Cache

Jim Foley
The New 49’ers
http://www.goldgold.com/

Rachel Dunn
The New 49’ers
http://www.goldgold.com/

Some others also, did not get their name or affiliation

[old gold miner]

Department of Fish & Game
Suction Dredge Program
Public Advisory Committee
Charter and Participant Commitments
PURPOSE: The Suction Dredge Program Public Advisory Committee (PAC) is comprised of
individuals that are knowledgeable of suction dredge activities, the environmental processes
found in streams where dredge activities occur, and/or regulatory issues associated with suction
dredging and streams. The overall goal of the PAC is to assist the California Department of Fish
& Game (DFG) identify the components of and potential regulatory approaches that will help
inform the development of proposed regulations for suction dredging. Specifically, by
establishing a collaborative environment, DFG hopes the PAC will provide input on technical
issues relevant to potential regulatory options that will inform DFG’s selection of a proposed
project. The Suction Dredge Program Draft Subsequent Environmental Impact Statement
(DSEIR) will analyze the potentially significant environmental impacts that may occur as a result
of suction dredge mining under a specific set of proposed regulations, along with a reasonable
range of alternatives that would also avoid or reduce potentially significant environmental
impacts.
PAC recommendations will be based on the best available technical information available to the
group. Recommendations will be submitted to DFG. DFG is committed to considering
recommendations of all stakeholders and recognizes the unique contributions the PAC could
make to the overall consideration of alternatives. However, DFG is under no legal obligation to
incorporate any PAC recommendations.
COLLABORATIVE SCOPE: Collaboration could include, but is not limited to, discussion of
the following:
• Methods for insuring that proposed regulations implement Fish and Game Code
section 5653 and 5653.9 and other applicable legal authorities which require, among
other things, that dredge operations will not be deleterious to fish. The PAC will be
guided by the common sense plain meaning of the word deleterious such that
deleterious effect generally means a wide‐ranging or long‐lasting consequence for a
fish population that extends beyond the temporal or spatial context of a specific direct
impact.
• Creating options that will assist DFG in achieving its mission of managing
California's diverse fish, wildlife, and plant resources, and the habitats upon which
they depend for their ecological values and for their use and enjoyment by the public.
• Ensuring that the development of the regulations consider practical technical
considerations for implementation, enforcement, and technological capabilities
existing at the time of implementation.
• Consideration of whether any proposals to reopen suction dredge permitting could be
implemented within the fee structure currently prescribed by statute for the permitting
program.
Suction Dredge Program Public Advisory Committee 2
Group Charter and Participant Commitments
Within this framework, DFG envisions that the PAC may develop proposals that include
variations of the following:
• Consider the definition of “suction dredge” including whether it includes such
activities as power sluicing and high banking.
• Consider if there are any stream reaches that should be reopened to suction dredging.
• Consider whether there are periods of time when suction dredging would not be
deleterious to fish in particular stream reaches.
• Consider if there are types of equipment that are not deleterious to fish.
• Consider if there are nozzle or hose size, horsepower and other methods of operation
that are not deleterious to fish.
• Consider whether limiting the number of dredges as a condition of reopening stream
reaches to suction dredging would eliminate any deleterious effects on fish.
• Consider methods of monitoring, reporting and enforcement.
MEMBERSHIP: Members of the group are by their personal knowledge, association,
constituency or organization involved in or related to activities concerning suction dredge
mining. Members have a local perspective, topical, on-the-ground knowledge, and the ability to
work collaboratively with people with views different from their own. Each participating
organization may have two individuals attend PAC meetings, but DFG will only compensate
travel expenses for one participant. PAC participants are Volunteers to DFG as defined in the
Department’s Volunteer Handbook. One participant from each participating organization will be
reimbursed for expenses per Department of Fish and Game general regulations. Reimbursement
will be only for selected participants that have been invited as representatives. Participants share
responsibility for both process and outcome of the PAC.
MEMBER ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES: By agreeing to serve on the PAC, members
agree to work collaboratively and to meet the following responsibilities:
• As appropriate act as a liaison and communicate information to and from their
organizations.
• Offer the perspective of a good citizen, an independent thinker and trust worthy
individual.
• Build trust among all stakeholders.
• Contribute data/information to clarify issues and eliminate false assumptions.
• Will not represent individual views as views of the PAC or make public confidential
conversations.
• Work to ensure acceptance and understanding of recommendations made by the PAC.
ATTENDANCE: Three meetings are envisioned to be held in Sacramento, California on
February 11, 25 and March 11, 2010. Attendance at these meetings is critical for the continuity
of the group. Those unable to fully participate will be asked to re-evaluate their interest in
membership.
Suction Dredge Program Public Advisory Committee 3
Group Charter and Participant Commitments
POLLING PROCESS: The full PAC will consider all recommendations and points made
during discussions. To determine a degree of consensus, member organizations may be asked to
note their level of support for items as ranging from Unqualified Support, Strong Support,
General Support, Qualified Support, to Fundamental Disagreement. The level of support for
various items will be recorded. If an item receives a level of Fundamental Disagreement, the
group will be asked to continue working until it appears a resolution is not attainable, or move on
to an area where more agreement is possible. At that time the members will note the nature of
the disagreement and make a determination as to the best way to proceed in the particular issue
area. When, and if, a poll is taken on any matter, each participating organization will be allowed
one statement.
Members are expected to always contribute their best personal thinking, regardless of the initial
positions of their sponsoring organizations. Collaboration cannot be effective unless all parties,
including sponsoring organizations, are open to modifying their initial positions. Members are
responsible for promoting understanding of PAC recommendations by the organizations they
represent.
GROUND RULES: The PAC will adhere to the following ground rules regarding participation:
1. Standing meeting ground rules apply (see attachment).
2. When discussing the work of PAC, meeting attendees will avoid attributing statements to
individuals.
3. Items presented as confidential will not be disclosed in other forums or used in a way to
disadvantage any member of the group.
4. Members shall act in good faith in all aspects of this consensus-building process.
5. Members shall communicate their interests and positions.
6. Members shall not engage in personal attacks or stereotyping.
7. Members shall refrain from impugning the motivations or intentions of others.
8. Members shall not make commitments they do not intend to follow through.
9. Members shall act consistently in the PAC and other forums where similar issues are being
discussed, including with the press.
10. Members agree to provide requested information to other members or explain the reason why
not.
11. Meeting participants attending without an official role will not be allowed to participate or
contribute to the PAC’s discussions.
12. Silence on an issue undergoing discussion will be considered as agreement with the outcome.
13. When, and if, a poll is taken to gauge the level of support for any particular item, each
participating organization will have only one voice.
14. Participating organizations are allowed to have up to two participants if they believe that
their interests are best represented by having individuals with varying subject area knowledge
present.
Suction Dredge Program Public Advisory Committee 4
Group Charter and Participant Commitments
STANDING GROUND RULES
There will be continuous opportunities for group discussion. You are asked to subscribe to several
key standing ground rules to allow for productive outcomes:
USE COMMON CONVERSATIONAL COURTESY - Don't interrupt; use appropriate
language, no third party discussions, etc.
HUMOR IS WELCOME AND IMPORTANT – But, humor should never be at someone
else's expense.
ALL IDEAS AND POINTS OF VIEW HAVE VALUE - You may hear something you do not
agree with or you think is "silly" or "wrong." Please remember that the purpose of the forum is to
share ideas. All ideas have value in this setting. The goal is to achieve understanding. Simply
listen, you do not have to agree.
PARTICIPANTS MAY CHANGE THEIR MIND - During the course of the session, some
participants may change their perspective regarding one or more items. Group members reserve
the right to change their mind and not be held to a previous position.
50-MILE RULE - Most of the participants have demanding responsibilities outside of the
meeting room. Your attention is needed for the full meeting. Please turn cell phones, or any
other communication item with an on/off switch to “silent.” If you do not believe you will be
able to participate fully, please discuss your situation with the facilitator.
BE COMFORTABLE - Please feel help yourself to refreshments or take personal breaks. If
you have other needs please let the facilitator know.
SPELLING DOESN’T COUNT - writing on a vertical surface (like blackboards or flipcharts)
actually increases the number of spelling errors – ideas are more important than spelling.
HONOR TIME - We have an ambitious agenda, in order to meet our goals it will be important
to follow the time guidelines given by the facilitator.
AVOID EDITORIALS - It will be tempting to analyze the motives of others or offer editorial
comments. Please talk about YOUR ideas and thoughts.
POLLING – We are not polling unless we say we a poll is being taken. Silence is not consent.
Decision making will be clear. Each participating organization has only one voice.
Suction Dredge Program Public Advisory Committee 5
Group Charter and Participant Commitments
COMITMENT TO PROCESS & GROUND RULES
By signing this document, you agree to participate on the PAC in good faith and to work
constructively and in conformity with the ground rules and the spirit of the effort.

(I signed nothing)

[old gold miner]

Department of Fish and Game
Suction Dredge Public Advisory Committee
Meeting #1 Agenda February 11, 2010, 10:00 am – 4:00 pm
Suction Dredge Public Advisory Committee 2/5/2010
Meeting #1 Agenda
LOCATION: DFG's Office of Training and Development, 1740 N. Market Blvd., Sacramento, CA
(in the Natomas area of Sacramento, just east of Arco Arena). Directions attached.
MEETING PURPOSE:
Build shared understanding of overall purpose of advisory committee and intended use of ideas
generated.
MEETING GOALS:
1. Build understanding of PAC process and expectations for participation;
2. Develop shared knowledge regarding context for advisory process;
3. Provide context for PAC’s discussions by providing overview of relevant DFG codes and regs;
4. Build common vocabulary and understanding of statutory issues to be addressed in order to
allow productive brainstorming;
5. Begin developing options for potential approaches and methods for regulating activity; and
6. Discuss next steps and topics for future meeting.
TIME AGENDA ITEM PRESENTER(S)
9:30 I. Arrival and Registration
10:00 II. Welcome and Purpose of Advisory Committee Mark Stopher
10:10 III. Introductions and Reasons for Participating All
10:30 IV. Process Overview and DFG Expectations
a. Review of Charter Statement [Handout 1]
b. Discussion Regarding Process/Expectations
c. Ratify Charter Statement
d. Volunteer Reimbursement [Handout 2]
Austin McInerny
11:00 V. Context for PAC Discussions
a. History of recent legal actions
b. CEQA process and timeline
c. Overview of F&G Code 5653 [Handout 3]
d. Overview of 14 CCR 228 [Handout 4]
e. Definition of a Suction Dredge
f. Definition of “Deleterious to Fish”
Michael
Stevenson, DFG
Staff
11:45 VI. Lunch Break (provided)
Department of Fish and Game
Suction Dredge Public Advisory Committee
Meeting #1 Agenda February 11, 2010, 10:00 am – 4:00 pm
Suction Dredge Public Advisory Committee 2/5/2010
Meeting #1 Agenda
TIME AGENDA ITEM PRESENTER(S)
12:15 VII. Suction Dredge Basics
a. Overview of Suction Dredging Activity
b. Geomorphology
c. Water Quality
d. Biological Resources
e. Other Topics?
Michael
Stevenson, All
12:45 VIII. Regulatory Update Overview
a. Must be rooted in “deleterious to fish”
b. Scope of program must be implementable within
available funding source
c. Regulatory “Toolkit”
Mark Stopher
1:30 IX. Brainstorm on Regulatory Approaches
a. Identification of topics for group review
(brainstorming and dot exercise)
b. Are there ways to minimize potentially
significant effects?
c. Of these, which seem most appropriate?
d. Are these methods feasible, implementable, and
enforceable?
e. Suggestion for options to bring forward
Breakout Groups
3:00 X. Review of Breakout Group Discussions
a. Similarities / Differences
b. Observations
Austin McInerny,
All
3:40 XI. Next Steps
a. Suggestions for meeting #2 topics
b. Additional information needed?
Austin McInerny,
All
3:55 XII. Next Steps and Meeting Recap Austin McInerny,
All
4:00 XIII. Adjourn

[CalGoldDredger]

Thanks OGM for sharing that info.

What a great big pile of stinky poo. The smell keeps growin stronger every day!!!!

I am a patient man and will wait and try to maintain hope. Dark days for the California miners.

John