CDFG Sac Meeting 2/11 Illegal

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Re: CDFG Sac Meeting 2/11 Illegal

Postby old gold miner » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:36 pm

Well, they CHOKED on this...................

30 U.S.C. § 22. Lands open to purchase by citizens

Except as otherwise provided, all valuable mineral deposits in lands belonging to the United States, … shall be free and open to exploration and purchase, and the lands in which they are found to occupation and purchase, by citizens of the United States … under regulations prescribed by law, and according to the local customs or rules of miners in the several mining districts [now = states], so far as the same are applicable and not inconsistent with the laws of the United States.

“ AND NOT INCONSISTANT WITH THE LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES“.
(emphasis added)

Irrefutably, federal law is the supreme law of the land & preempts any state law in conflict with overriding federal law.

It takes no legal genius, wizard, or lawyer to determine that the provisions of SB 670 prohibiting mining state wide (including all public domain lands) for an indefinite period of time are certainly preempted by federal law.

Simply because that mining prohibition is clearly “INCONSISTANT” with the laws of the United States.
Which promotes, encourages and provides for mineral entry on applicable federal public domain lands.

It is impossible to raise a rational argument otherwise.

They also choked on the FACT, mercury is a "locatable mineral" under federal law.
Meaning, we are free to mine it.
............. :mrgreen:
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Re: CDFG Sac Meeting 2/11 Illegal

Postby CalGoldDredger » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:51 pm

Well, soon enough we'll see what the FEDS have to say of this...
But if we lose, it will be like losing an all in hand of poker, and the crap will just get deeper and deeper.

I will keep hoping and wishing for the best but something tells me California Dredging will never be the same again, ever.

John
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Re: CDFG Sac Meeting 2/11 Illegal

Postby old gold miner » Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:32 am

Public land under the ownership of the United States.
“The power over the disposition of such land and the minerals contained therein is in Congress and not in the states“.
(McLemore v. Express Oil Co. (1910) 158 Cal. 559, 562; Moore v. Smaw (1861) 17 Cal. 199, 218-219.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Small scale suction dredging is the primary exploration, and production method for recovering placer gold on mining claims on federal public domain lands, open to mineral entry under the General Mining Laws (30 USC § 22 et., seq). The vast majority of all small scale suction dredge gold mining in California takes place on unpatented, or patented mining claims situated on or within federal public domain lands. With only rare exception, small scale suction dredging is the only economically viable means that ordinary men have to economically benefit from private property rights granted to them under 30 USC § 22.

Indisputably, 30 USC § 22 is a federal land disposal law, including the right to mine applicable minerals therein. “Lands open to purchase by citizens: Except as otherwise provided, all valuable mineral deposits in lands belonging to the United States, …shall be free and open to exploration and purchase, and the lands in which they are found to occupation and purchase, by citizens of the United States … under regulations prescribed by law, and according to the local customs or rules of miners in the several mining districts, so far as the same are applicable and not inconsistent with the laws of the United States“. 30 USC § 22.

On September 9, 1850, Congress passed an Act for the Admission of California into the Union. 31 Cong. Ch. 50, September 9, 1850, 9 Stat. 452. In critical part, that Act states as follows:

“Sec. 3. And be it further enacted, That the said State of California is admitted into the Union upon the express condition that the people of said State, through their legislature or otherwise, shall never interfere with the primary disposal of the public lands within its limits, and shall pass no law and do no act whereby the title of the United States to, and right to dispose of, the same shall be impaired or questioned. . .”
As such, Congress clearly abrogated, and California forever expressly conceded all rights to control the disposition of how the federal government disposes of federal public domain lands within its boundaries. Furthermore, provisions of SB 670 prohibit all suction dredge gold mining statewide in California, for an indefinite period of time. As such, SB 670 suction dredging gold mining ban is an unlawful constraint on mining claim owners use of federal public domain in California.

When a State through its entities or officials voluntarily elects to participate in a federal program knowing that a consequence of participation is a waiver of immunity from suit, the State’s waiver of immunity is just as much an “intentional relinquishment or abandonment of a known right or privilege” (College Sav., 527 U.S. at 682) as a waiver that is expressly embodied in state law.

Congress has authority under the Constitution to condition state access to a federal program or benefit on a waiver of the State’s immunity from suit, federal law determines the consequences of the State’s voluntary actions, and any state effort to negate that condition through reliance on state law would be preempted by the Supremacy Clause. Lawrence County v. Lead-Deadwood Sch. Dist. No. 40-1, 469 U.S. 256, 257-258 (1985)

A State may not simultaneously accept the benefits of a federal program and fail to comply with the conditions upon which those benefits are extended. Townsend v. Swank, 404 U.S. 282, 286 (1971) (state rule that conflicts with the conditions on which federal funds are offered is “invalid under the Supremacy Clause”).

Furthermore, less than 5,000 acres of federal public domain lands may only be withdrawn from entry, occupation and use under The General Mining Laws by the Secretary of Interior. More than 5,000 acres can only be withdrawn with the explicit consent of Congress pursuit to provisions of the Federal Land Policy and Management Act of 1976 (FLPMA), 43 U.S.C. §1701 et seq.

FLPMA 43 U. S. C. § 1702. Definitions (e) The term “public lands” means any land and interest in land owned by the United States within the several States and administered by the Secretary of the Interior through the Bureau of Land Management, without regard to how the United States acquired ownership.

(j) The term “withdrawal” means withholding an area of Federal land from settlement, sale, location, or entry, under some or all of the general land laws, for the purpose of limiting activities under those laws in order to maintain other public values in the area or reserving the area for a particular public purpose or program;

FLPMA 43 U.S.C. §1712 (e) (3) Withdrawals made pursuant to section 204 of this Act [43 USCS Sec. 1714] may be used in carrying out management decisions, but public lands shall be removed from or restored to the operation of the Mining Law of 1872, as amended (R.S. 2318-2352; 30 U.S.C. 21 et seq.) or transferred to another department, bureau, or agency only by withdrawal action pursuant to section 204 [43 USCS Sec. 1714] or other action pursuant to applicable law:

FLPMA 43 U.S.C. § 1732(b)… “no provision of this section or any other section of this Act shall in any way amend the Mining Law of 1872 or impair the rights of any locators or claims under that Act, including, but not limited to, rights of ingress and egress“. FLPMA § 302(b).

A regulation (a de facto closure) which removes [public domain lands] from its prior use, or from mineral entry, is a withdrawal within the meaning of the Federal Land Planning and Management Act of 1976, (FLPMA). (Mountain States Legal Foundation v. Andrus, (D.C. (Wyo.) 1980) 499 F.Supp. 383; 36 CFR §13.22(c)(4); 50 CFR § 36.42(c)(4).)

It “operates to remove lands from public use” and, as such, constitutes a “withdrawal” subject to FLPMA. (Mountain States Legal Foundation v. Andrus, (D.C. (Wyo.) 1980) 499 F.Supp. 383; FLPMA §204(c); 43 USCA §1714(c); FLPMA §103(j); 43 USCA §1702(j).)

State jurisdiction over federal land "does not extend to any matter that is not consistent with full power in the United States to protect its lands, to control their use and to prescribe in what manner others may acquire rights in them." Utah Power, 243 U.S. at 404.

If Congress so chooses, federal legislation, together with the policies and objectives encompassed therein, necessarily override and preempt conflicting state laws, policies, and objectives under the Constitution's Supremacy Clause, U.S. Const. art. VI, cl. 2. See Kleppe, 426 U.S. at 543 ("'A different rule would place the public domain of the United States completely at the mercy of [the State]'" (quoting Camfield v. United States, 167 U.S. 518, 526 (1897)).
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Re: CDFG Sac Meeting 2/11 Illegal

Postby 4theluvofgold » Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:46 am

Its good to see that a good group was able to get to the meeting. Haven't seen many of them since the DEQ meetings in Oregon back in 2004/2005.
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Re: CDFG Sac Meeting 2/11 Illegal

Postby Hoser John » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:10 am

What a hoot-all these folks and you were not even informed-biz as usual-miners treated like mushrooms-fed bs and kept in the dark. Games over-topic is a joke-EIR process that worked and was iron clad for over 15 years violated and kaput EIR-do go to jail--do not pass go--do not get $200. Screw it going to Tahoe to party down--Winter Olympics Opening Ceremony tonight,warm booze,warmer ski bunnies,nightclubs,gambling and righteous utter decadence-no better way to toast the demise of freedom of information and dredging-party on-John :lol: :D
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Re: CDFG Sac Meeting 2/11 Illegal

Postby russau » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:25 am

tip one for me John!
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Re: CDFG Sac Meeting 2/11 Illegal

Postby goldfinds » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:37 am

OMG, Thanks for posting that info, you are providing a great service communicating these details to us. As well as teaching us the Mining law, thanks again. Keep the info coming.
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Re: CDFG Sac Meeting 2/11 Illegal

Postby old gold miner » Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:53 pm

Image

Image

Tough thing about these meetings is, PAC /DFG sets the rules how they go.

First thing DFG said was:

We are not here to discuss the federal mining laws, this is about CA CEQA & suction dredging. So, no such discussion is allowed.

I was able to circumvent that numerous times.
Simply because DFG raised issues, where I could get some in.

Part of what DFG tried to get in was, a discussion to include “sluicing” & “high banking in the definition of “suction dredging”.

I put a HALT to that quickly.

I pointed out, DFG has statutory authority to regulate only certain things.

CA Fish & Game Code 5653
5653. (a) The use of any vacuum or suction dredge equipment by any person in any river, stream, or lake of this state…”.

Meaning, “vacuum or suction dredge” period.
High bankers & sluices ARE NOT vacuum or suction dredges.
As such, DFG has no statutory authority to regulate any mining equipment beyond that limit.
Furthermore, DFG authority is only IN STREAM.
High banking does NOT occur IN STREAM.

END OF STORY.

I also pointed out, these meetings are premature.
In that there is a federal court hearing February 25th (AG Motion to dismiss), which I believe will not result in a dismissal (PLP suit thrown out).
AS PLP suit is on solid legal ground.

The next federal court hearing is March 25th, on PLP Motion for an injunction to HALT SB 670 dredge prohibition. Which, I believe will result in exactly that. Federal court will grant the injunction. No one can know which of the many sound legal reasons the judge can use to do so, But, I believe it will be that the judge will rule, various provisions of SB 670 are both preempted by federal law & unconstitutional.

Either way, or both, that can kill SB 670. SB 670 was badly written, in that it contains no “savings or severability” clause. Meaning, if any part of it gets tossed out, it ALL goes out. That results in DFG issuance of suction dredge permits no long being a CA CEQA project. Meaning CA CEQA is no longer applicable.

The only was CA state can resurrect CEQA to cover vacuum & suction dredging is new legislation. Which, would take a year & be subject to much more scrutiny. As, PLP, us & involved parties have raised a whole series of important issues many in the legislature are NOW aware of, they were not, when they passed SB 670.

Certainly, CA can appeal the injunction ruling. But, that would also take a year & would not result in a win for them. As other strong issues of unconstitutionality have come to light.

FLPMA 43 U. S. C. § 1702. Definitions (e) The term “public lands” means any land and interest in land owned by the United States within the several States and administered by the Secretary of the Interior through the Bureau of Land Management, without regard to how the United States acquired ownership.

(j) The term “withdrawal” means withholding an area of Federal land from settlement, sale, location, or entry, under some or all of the general land laws, for the purpose of limiting activities under those laws in order to maintain other public values in the area or reserving the area for a particular public purpose or program;

FLPMA 43 U.S.C. §1712 (e) (3) Withdrawals made pursuant to section 204 of this Act [43 USCS Sec. 1714] may be used in carrying out management decisions, but public lands shall be removed from or restored to the operation of the Mining Law of 1872, as amended (R.S. 2318-2352; 30 U.S.C. 21 et seq.) or transferred to another department, bureau, or agency only by withdrawal action pursuant to section 204 [43 USCS Sec. 1714] or other action pursuant to applicable law:

FLPMA 43 U.S.C. § 1732(b)… “no provision of this section or any other section of this Act shall in any way amend the Mining Law of 1872 or impair the rights of any locators or claims under that Act, including, but not limited to, rights of ingress and egress“. FLPMA § 302(b).

A regulation (a de facto closure) which removes [public domain lands] from its prior use, or from mineral entry, is a withdrawal within the meaning of the Federal Land Planning and Management Act of 1976, (FLPMA). (Mountain States Legal Foundation v. Andrus, (D.C. (Wyo.) 1980) 499 F.Supp. 383; 36 CFR §13.22(c)(4); 50 CFR § 36.42(c)(4).)

It “operates to remove lands from public use” and, as such, constitutes a “withdrawal” subject to FLPMA. (Mountain States Legal Foundation v. Andrus, (D.C. (Wyo.) 1980) 499 F.Supp. 383; FLPMA §204(c); 43 USCA §1714(c); FLPMA §103(j); 43 USCA §1702(j).)

Plainly stated, CA has no authority to “withdraw” federal public domain lands from application of the General Mining Laws (30 U.S.C. 21 et seq.) under FLPMA.

Even CA State law is clear on the subject.
Public land under the ownership of the United States. “The power over the disposition of such land and the minerals contained therein is in Congress and not in the states“.
(McLemore v. Express Oil Co. (1910) 158 Cal. 559, 562; Moore v. Smaw (1861) 17 Cal. 199, 218-219.)

Certainly, CA has authority to reasonably “regulate” suction dredging. But, has no authority to ban, halt, or otherwise make those regulations so stringent, they close federal lands to such mining, or prohibit it.

END OF STORY.

Frankly, a result of this meeting made me realize, most opponents of suction dredge gold mining have no inkling or idea of what the general mining law entails, and the POWER of the private property rights it contains, that protect valid mining claim owners mining rights.

IF (big if) these meetings continue? I am going to prepare a 3 page (or less) executive summary of the private property rights valid mining claim owners have. As a handout, at the next meeting, to try to educate opponents of suction dredging what those are. Which, I don’t believe PAC/DFG can stop me from passing around.

Not that it would do that much good, as it appeared to me many suction dredge opponents (read Sierra club, Karuk tribe, etc) make their living fighting these so called environmental protection battles. To keep that living coming, they will continue to fight, even knowing they are stone cold wrong. But, at least it would help to let them know what they are up against & why they are wrong about suction dredging.
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Re: CDFG Sac Meeting 2/11 Illegal

Postby CalGoldDredger » Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:03 pm

Mushroom John.. ooops Hoser John,

Alright have a good time, party, win big and more party. You deserve it all that hard cold reclaimating. :lol:

I fully agree with what Hoser has said and his point perfectly executed. Thanks!

Pictures...Hmmmm.....I guess some things are better left behind close doors so as we don't have anyone to blame if something does us wrong. Oh but now we have all the names!!! Thanks OGM. :o

At least someone is keeping us informed, Old Gold Miner your alright, man. :D

John
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Re: CDFG Sac Meeting 2/11 Illegal

Postby goldfinds » Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:20 pm

OMG, great report as usual, and I would have throught the opponents knew about the mining law, but it makes sense they are not. Heck I've been mining for 35 years and I'm just now getting schooled on mining laws.

ScottC.
http://www.goldfinds.com
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