New Merury Study 2011

[micropedes1]

I have tried to lay low and keep my mouth shut so that I can do my own mining thing and stay off of the enviros radar. But I am seriously getting fed up with having some of this shoved down my throut.

Did not see the sampling done at Humbug creek. But I did witness some of what was done on the Yuba. No, I didn't do the digging. But I do know those that were working the shovels. I tried to talk to those that were gathering samples for analysis, but it was like talking to a wall.

I have dredged those waters. And I have done enough research to know that you sample from top to bottom in stream sediments. And not just one hole, but at a series of locations. That is how you determine pollution density and whether it is a "point" or "nonpoint" pollution source. EPA guidelines and such. No random sampling took place. Dig here instructions! Only near bottom of hole with visible mercury showing were samples taken. One hole does not demonstrate research! Conversations indicated that conclusions were already determined and they were just going thru the motions to give validity to their "study". Can they use this to influence mining regulations?? Their conclusions are based upon faulty science, but that has not stopped them in the past. Might be used to garner an emotional response from the general (unsuspecting) public.

But I am seriously p*ssed. I do not live in CA. Got claims there (now worthless). I gathered up all my toys and carried them north last season. Don't plan on going back there. I expect that I'll have plenty of y'all for company in the upcoming season. Bring ammo for bears and skeeters!

[CalGoldDredger]

Here is a Quote from Stopher in this news article: http://www.theunion.com/article/20110127/NEWS/110129767/1002&parentprofile=1053

“Our charge is to determine whether section dredging will be deleterious to the fish, and if it is, we have to write regulations that would allow dredging that wouldn't be deleterious — that's our basic authority,” Stopher said.

Stopher would not disclose the contents of the draft EIR report — but he said the report does use information from the two new USGS studies to evaluate the consequences of the effects of suction dredging.

I'm out of here this crap is stickin' bad.

[micropedes1]

Y'all correct me if I am wrong. But it seems prudient to allow dredgers to remove as much mercury from the environment as possible. Especially since we do it with no thought of charging for the service. The ONLY way to reduce the amount of methyl mercury in the waterways is to remove the metallic mercury. Else every major flooding event will continue to redistribute that mercury farther downstream.

Or do these environmental studies propose to limit mercury contamination thru flood control? Yeah...like California has the money for such nonsense!!

[Matt Mattson]

They will keep on with this kind of attack and keep making our best mineral and metals locations "National Parks" until it is no longer possible to support oneself independently. It is not dredgers or dredging they hate, it is independent income. It is why they will do these studies until the activity is banned, and it is why they will keep after the opal fields in SE Oregon until they are all "no access."

[Geo-George]

Yup! I agree. It's all about the money/wealth.
Control that and you control the World.
Like,.....maybe China?
...and "they" ( I sure didn't vote for 'em.) in the USA, have elected a bunch of Da-a-a-*-m Socialists!
Top to bottom, side to side. I surely hope that the last election was the start of fiscal sanity with a return
"to the Republic".
Recite the "Pledge of Allegiance", slowly and quietly,
reflect on each phrase.
It is a pledge of both the citizen and the country.
Follow that with the "Preamble", toped off with the "Declaration of Indpendance".
That's what I was taught when I was in school. I thought it was the truth.
Not anymore, do they even still teach "factual" United States of America History?
I want my/our America back,.....
We're prob all screwed anyway, but I can still hope,........

[russau]

hopeing wont do it! fighting/knowing your rights is the only way to keep em!

[foundit]

For this to be a remotely legitimate study there needs to be a control, what is their control, they have none because most methyl mercury comes from atmospheric pollution, car exhaust, industrial exhaust, etc. I am sure if a turbidity test was done during the flood season it would contaminate the study with with ambient methyl mercury that continually falls to earth globally, If they said that the methyl mercury is coming from solid mercury breaking down then removing the solid mercury, which Stopher said dredges do just fine, would be logical course of action, could it be that the Salmon after eating mercury laden bait fish in the ocean are dying up river and adding to the problem year after year, I say we must then eliminate the Salmon for our children's safety, I wonder what happens to peoples intelligence, patriotism and I.Q. once they hit Gov. jobs? This study is beyond ludicrous, it is as a previous poster stated CRIMINAL in every sense, this is not just about dredging, its about how our freedoms, intelligence, money and hard work are being rapped by political greed and special interest, if we do not want socialism to be the mainstay of our life then this stuff must end....but how?....will History repeat itself?, in a true Democracy we would have an equal say in this matter, but what it comes down to is the money of special interest swaying Gov. in its favor. I also Metal Detect and the same thing is happening to this, it is being shut down, there are actually places that say anything older than 2008 is an archeological find WTF!!!!! They are giving these trust fund college lifer so called archeologist authority to take away our freedoms .......and on and on it goes till we all fall down and the Chinese pick up the pieces.

I posted this in a different thread by mistake, so I re posted here where it should be.

[finegold]

This entire mercury/methymercury subject is rubbing me seriously raw.

Mercury becomes methylmercury by digestion and secretions of a particular type of bacteria. This bacteria is an anaerobic bacteria - lives in extremely low or no oxygen environment - like estuaries, San Fran Bay, long term quiet areas where sediment is filling in lakes, ponds, dams, and other non-flowing or very slow flowing environs where scouring does not substantially occur. In normal stream/rivers that have natural geologic processes the entire bedload and suspended load grinds down to the hardpan or bedrock as part of the natural processes.

While the people writing their report enjoy attempting to support their "maybe/might" conclusions by sounding like the smartest people in the room, their actual terms used in the study support the reality that suction dredging may alter, in a microscopic way (when properly viewed in perspective to the whole), the temporary location of mercury in the bedload, but does not even come close to the definition of substantially influence or contribute to the movement or distribution of mercury in the waterway.

One example they use is the term fluvial. It merely is the action or motion of sediment, erosion, and deposition of the sediment.
Wikipedia explanation:
"Erosion by moving water can happen in two ways. Firstly, the movement of water across the bed exerts a shear stress directly onto the bed. If the cohesive strength of the substrate is lower than the shear exerted, or the bed is composed of loose sediment which can be mobilized by such stresses, then the bed will be lowered purely by clearwater flow. However, if the river carries significant quantities of sediment, this material can act as tools to enhance wear of the bed (abrasion). At the same time the fragments themselves are ground down, becoming smaller and more rounded (attrition).

Sediment in rivers is transported as either bedload (the coarser fragments which move close to the bed) or suspended load (finer fragments carried in the water). There is also a component carried as dissolved material.

For each grain size there is a specific velocity at which the grains start to move, called entrainment velocity. However the grains will continue to be transported even if the velocity falls below the entrainment velocity due to the reduced (or removed) friction between the grains and the river bed. Eventually the velocity will fall low enough for the grains to be deposited. This is shown by the Hjulstrøm curve.

A river is continually picking up and dropping solid particles of rock and soil from its bed throughout its length. Where the river flow is fast, more particles are picked up than dropped. Where the river flow is slow, more particles are dropped than picked up. Areas where more particles are dropped are called alluvial or flood plains, and the dropped particles are called alluvium.

Even small streams make alluvial deposits, but it is in the flood plains and deltas of large rivers that large, geologically-significant alluvial deposits are found.

The amount of matter carried by a large river is enormous. "

The normal natural geologic "fluvial" condition is what causes mercury (regardless of whether someone put mercury in the stream/river bed or is naturally occurring ) and all material comprising the "bedload" to become suspended and relocated. Should some hapless gold dredger, fisherman looking for bait, or and other activity temporarily alter and/or disturb the bedload, it is in no way adding to the amount of mercury present. The bedload is NOT a stable "safe" environment that will protect the human race from the evils of metylmercury. Anyone suggesting, that the bedload in a healthy natural stream/river is a safe haven for the mercury that may be present, is in denial or is intentionally misleading people.

This is my previous illiterate response in the "General Prospecting Forum"

The entire premise of the disturbed mercury in the stream/river environment is so flawed as to be near criminal. It is in complete denial of the natural geologic and hydrologic process and history. The natural geologic condition is not a stable un-changing environment. The natural process is "in your face" measurable and documented. The "normal" cycle would be complete transportation of the bed materials, bank to bank, with scouring of the hardpan or bedrock (when not altered or modified by human infrastructure). The beautiful bank side trees and shrubs (the riparian) that shade the swimming fish and "stabilize" the banks and gravel bars are typically short term and temporary - not a forever condition, in fact it is in the long term the opposite of normal. The significant example is the movement of the tailings from the Malakoff Hydraulic Mining, which created havoc, in the Sacramento Valley - but only because people lived and farmed in the Valley. No people and no one would have cared. Not suggesting it was good or bad, only saying that it was an acceleration of the natural process of the building of the alluvial plane. In a geologic micro second, about ten years, the gravel and sediment, moved tens of miles - along with everything in the matrix including mercury. Mercury and anything else, within the edge to edge banks of the aquarian/raprian bed material, was put in suspension (major disturbed but natural and normal). Anyone who is worried about suction dredging disturbing a stable and protected mercury in the bed material needs to get educated and/or psychological help. This entire disturbed mercury argument is a "red Herring". It is a huge lie using serious fear on susceptible well meaning people, who are intentionally and with malice, being manipulated for the hidden agenda by a select few. I consider this a type of psychological terrorism.

[dickb]

For anyone that doesn't quite understand what is being said.

The Grand Canyon was cut by erosion by the river as it flowed south. Anyone that purports that a 4" dredge is capable of causing the type of destruction by dredging, that the old hydraulic mining caused back in the 1800's is just talking nonsense.

The only way that mercury is removed from the watershed is by actually physically removing metal mercury from the water shed. The point is that no matter how much metal is removed from the watershed, weathering cinnabar ore will replace far more than is removed.

Since all rivers eventually flow into the oceans, so will the mercury follow the river flow to the ocean and settle to the bottom of the ocean. It has for millions of years and will continue long after we are gone.

This is like blaming lighting bugs for causing lighting!

Dickb

[ROKONRANDY1]

A Practical Treastise on Hydraulic Mining in California 1910 shows just the Bloomfield operation from 1876 to 1882 lost 21,512 pounds of mercury and recovered 2,047,794 dallars. This just one mining company. I can see lots of potinial here for a lottery funded salvage project on your favorite river. rokonrandy1